Using Our Online Conversations For Good
Social media is supposed to bring us together. So what happened? Daniel Darling talks about his new book, "A Way with Words: Using Our Online Conversations for Good".
A couple of weeks ago, I had pastor and author Daniel Darling on the podcast. Dan recently wrote a book called A Way with Words: Using Our Online Conversations for Good.
Click here to listen to our full conversation.
During our conversation, Dan and I discussed social media. If you’re on Twitter or Facebook, this conversation will benefit you.
Here’s a lightly edited excerpt:
MATT: Right before we connected I was looking at Twitter, and Tim Alberta, one of the best people political observers in the country tweets this, “Social media is doing serious damage to Americans mental health and sense of perspective. The stuff I see on Facebook and Twitter every day makes me as pessimistic about our future as anything I've witnessed on Capitol Hill.” Dan Darling, how, how bad is it? I'm assuming that this problem led you to write this book.
DAN: Yeah, it is bad. I saw that tweet by Tim. Tim is a great follow. By the way. He just kind of calls it like he sees it. And as a great reporter, I tend to agree with him. I think things have gotten so toxic on both mediums. It's funny, I would say Twitter is probably more…thought leader types, influencers leaders than like the masses, and those of us who hang out on Twitter, tend to roll our eyes at Facebook, you know, because Facebook is like everybody, it's like my mom and uncles, people you go to church with. I actually think both are pretty toxic, but the toxicity on Twitter is people in positions of influence, and that creates its own bubble. And I actually think that can be fairly toxic in a more powerful way, because Twitter represents people who actually have some level of power or authority to act on that. Does that make sense?
MATT: Yeah, I think they're very different mediums. And I could just tell you, personally, my biggest concern is Twitter. And I feel like I have to be there. I feel like there's this tension between me being the person I want to be and having the career that I want to have. I mean, I think I could check out of social media and maybe survive for a couple of years. And then, I think I would cease to be relevant. And so part of my job is contingent on me being on this platform and engaging in self promotion, and…there's a tension there. How should I navigate that?
DAN: Well, I mean, I don't actually advocate stepping away from social media. I know there's a lot of really good books that have looked into screen time and digital Sabbath's if you will. All good, it's a good conversation. But you know, it's my opinion that these mediums are going to be here to stay. We're not going to go back to the 1950s and we're not going to suddenly become Amish. So the question then becomes how do we steward these media? I mean, this is where people are talking, they're talking on Facebook, they're talking on Twitter. So then how do we steward this, as I would say, in a Christian way? And I think that's the conversation worth having that. You know, let's be on these mediums. But how do we use them in a way that pushes back against the toxicity?
MATT: I definitely want to spend a lot of our time on the solution. But I would just say, to your first point about having to be on them, I mean, I feel like not being on them is really a point of privilege. We talk about privilege in this society. I wish that I was privileged enough to not have to be on social media, like I feel like I am not successful enough to leave Twitter. You know, Adam Carolla, the comedian, has this “rich man poor man” routine where he says there are certain things that only rich people and only poor people can do or have. Like an outdoor shower is something no middle class guy has, but rich people and poor people take outdoor showers. And I think the same thing is true with social media. Like, if you're Michael Lewis, you probably don't need to be on Twitter. And if you're a homeless guy, you may not need to be on Twitter. But if you're Matt Lewis, you have to be there. It's like a man made prison almost. And so we can't get we can't get away from it. So maybe then it becomes like, how do we mitigate the downside and and find a way to manage it?
DAN: Yeah, I think we could split the difference too, right? Like, we can be on social media, but we don't have to be as some people call “very online”… We also need to have a lot of our lives that is offline and in community and conversation with people who are never going to be on Twitter, right? Because it creates this sort of bubble, where we think this is reality. And so I think that kind of can totally be that...
MATT: I think that's such an important key. I'll be online and then I'll go, you know, help coach my kids baseball team, and then I'll be online, and then I will go for a jog even or...
DAN: When I go to church, most of the time, people there don't know the last 10 Twitter controversies, right? They're not talking about the Hatch Act, or the Rose Garden, or whatever Christians are arguing about. And that really brings a lot of perspective. I also think, you know, we, like social media, are toxic, but it doesn’t have to be. I think there's ways to bring joy, there's ways to make it, to use it in a way that can reverse some of that.
MATT: Well, I think it's, it's so important to, to get that balance because, I don't know if you felt this way, but when you were in middle school or high school, it felt like that was your whole world. And if you were a nerd there, then you were a nerd. And the most popular kids in school were the most popular kids in the world—as far as you were concerned. But then you leave school and you're like, wow, that was a small and really insignificant. And there's so much more out there but it skewed my perception.
DAN: Yeah, it can. Which is why I think we need to, to balance it. I also think, you know, we can resist the urge that we have to speak out and have an opinion on everything. There's some things that we should talk about, but should we do it on Twitter? Is that the best medium for all these conversations? And I also think we forget that we're in public. It's this weird paradox where we're tempted to sort of perform and project a version of ourselves—for an audience. And yet at the same time, we forget we're in public, and we're making public statements. And so I try to have like a group of friends that I text with, and most of my hot takes, I don't tweet just because, you know, after talking to friends, you're like, yeah, yeah, maybe it's good I didn't say that publicly.
MATT: Yeah, I think it's good to have that outlet man. Because it's like, you probably can't discipline yourself not to express it. But if you can express it, on a platform that isn't your main Twitter feed, then you're probably saving yourself some trouble. And then we can also be intentional about looking for ways to bring joy with my platform? Who can I elevate? Whose work can I commend? Whether it's a book or an article or podcast, You know, how can I do that? Who can I encourage, you know, like, I'm scrolling through and someone has a good point say, “Hey, man, that's a really great point”.